Sump Plug Woes!

[taffy1967]

Right well first of all I'm well cheesed off because I've just recently taxed our Mini and now I have a problem with the sump plug.

Earlier today I had intended doing an oil change and draining the cheap 20W/50 oil I filled it with which was being used temporarily and as a means of flushing the engine until I was ready to fill up with the lovely Duckhams Q Classic 20W/50.

Unfortunately I first noticed all was not well when I spotted a patch of oil beneath the car and as bad luck would have it the area around/beneath the sump plug was wet with oil too.

Strange though because my sump plug hole was heli-coiled several years back after the original threads gave up, but my Mini was laid up for almost 3 years and nothing leaked in that time?

All I did a week or so back was change the oil and so the sump plug was removed and refitted with the correct copper washer and done up as usual. I've only driven it a few miles since, but now it's leaking and I've discovered that it feels like the thread has gone again. It's also strange because it appeared fine after the oil change and it certainly wasn't leaking then.

The company that heli-coiled it fitted an extra long sump plug and I know that the original plug with the magnet on the end doesn't fit properly. Or at least I could never get it to tighten when the washer was used.

But now the extra long sump plug just spins and won't tighten up properly. Well when you turn it you can feel some resistance but then it just spins again and leaving it at the point of resistance isn't enough to prevent the oil leak either.

Anyway I now need to sort it, so should I: -

A: Try using some plumbers tape on the sump plug? Would this help make it tight and safe?
B: Order a tapered sump plug from Mini Spares but be careful not to over tighten as it can crack the sump?
C: Try and get a different sized sump plug from a local motor factors like Halfords?
D: Pay to get it re-heli-coiled, that's if it's actually possible?
E: Get a road tax refund and stop using my Mini for another 3 years?

Okay the last one was a joke, but any advice would be greatly appreciated but you'd think a heli-coil would last much longer than 6 years? Especially since my Mini wasn't used for 3 of those years!

And I'm pretty gutted as my Minis now in bits again and I'm going to miss the Sunday run tomorrow.

[dai9fxey]

Bugger. In all the years & Minis I've ever had, not once have i had that problem. Maybe I've been lucky,
The PTFE tape would probably work as a stop gap measure, emergency only.
The tapered sump plug looks to be your only option and use some PTFE tape for good measure.
Unless of course, somebody has any other ideas.

[taffy1967]

Yes I might ring them on Monday but I don't expect they'll be very helpful since they did the job about 6 years ago, but we'll see.

I do know of a Mini friendly garage in Cardiff whose worth ringing too, but I don't want to use the car now until I know for certain that the sump plug isn't going to leak or pop out too.

God it sucks big time and I should have had a new gearbox casing fitted instead of having them faff around with this one.

[jc1380s]

Sounds like the reason for fitting the helicoil in the 1st place was down to the original thread being knackered or stripped.

Helicoils usually need the original damaged thread to be totally removed by drilling out with a larger drill bit, a new tread tapped and then the 'reducer / helicoil inserted to bring the thread size back to near your original sump plug thread. Helicoils will never be as strong as the original thread as you are effectivly tapping the hole twice resulting in a weakened mating surface.

It looks like you have either damaged the helicoil insert or, more likely, damaged the redrilled thread that the helicoil fits into.

A tapered sump plug may work if its not overtightened but just how confident are you going to be with that solution? and is the same problem only going to re-occur if / when you one day overtighten it?

I think that the only long term answer is either to again redrill the hole bigger and then thread it to take a larger diameter sump plug (or bigger bolt!) (and if the casing material is substantial enough to let you do this!) or to change the gearbox casing (a bit drastic I know but it's the ultimate confidence giving solution!)

As said before PTFE tape would work as a stop gap emergancy repair but behaves strangely when in contact with oil and even stranger when in contact with very hot oil!

Just a thought but are you positive the oil is leaking from the helicoil thread and not from a crack in the sump - would explain the reoccurance of the leak after all this time.

Silly question but have tou driven over any kerbs or rocks or sleeping policemen too enthusiastically since getting the Mini back on the road?

Hope this helps a little. The last thing you need is to one day lose all the oil from the sump!

jc

[taffy1967]

Thanks JC and no I haven't banged the sump or anything since putting it back on the road. it's just the sump plug hole/helicoil which is the problem and it is only trickling a little so it's slightly wet around the plug.

I'm going to empty the oil tomorrow, check the heli-coil and check the sump plug again. It's been such a long time since I last had to remove it and I was surprised by how much play there was until it was fully nipped up.

A local garage sorted my bottom ball-joints, but they shouldn't have had any need to go near it themselves. I just hope they didn't tighten it some more because they saw a little oil or just did it anyway because garages like to tighten everything so the home DIY novice then has to take their car back to them.

It's probably not the case, but I hate anyone else touching my Mini and I've got a very suspicious mind. ;D

The other thing I did was reuse the old sump plug washer, because I'm keeping the new one for when I've fully flushed the engine and filled it up with the good classic oil.

I can't see that being the problem, but fingers crossed it is and I went to Halfords today and bought one of those sump plug washers with the little seals, so I'll give that a try too.

Failing that and I'm getting it re-heli-coiled with a good Mini friendly garage.

[taffy1967]

Right after draining the oil I had a good look at the sump plug hole thread and you'll probably think I'm being a bit dim, but there is no heli-coil fitted at all.

The company that was supposed to have sorted that issue obviously ripped us off big time, because all they've done is cut new threads in the sump and their appear to be very fine threads too. So it's no wonder that big bolt never seemed to fit too good and has now failed.

We have phoned around and been in touch with a heli-coil/gearbox specialist near Merthyr. They seemed to know their stuff, claimed to know Minis very well and even asked us to check if a heli-coil had been fitted because they suspected that it hadn't.

So we'll probably get back in touch with them and with any luck they'll sort the problem for good and hopefully I'll also be able to use the original sump plug with the magnet too.

[taffy1967]

Thanks Phil and to just name and shame their called STC's of Talbot Green and they claim to be gearbox & clutch specialists. But they know how unhappy we are with their work and service because we'd taken our Mini back quite a few times from being dissatisfied and to be honest we won't be using them again now.

We only used them because they came recommended by the body repair specialist (Dennis of N&D Motors, Taffs Well) who had done work on our Mini, but he's emigrated to Spain now anyway.

So we're going to give that company outside Merthyr (I think they're called Dragon of Llwyd Coed) a go and then we'll recommend them so long as they do a decent job.

[taffy1967]

Thanks buddy but we've still not booked it in yet because I've had to replace the fuel hose from the tank because that had started to leak a bit of fuel.

I guess being laid up for so long hasn't helped, but I hope to get it sorted soon otherwise having it MOT'd, taxed and fully insured is a complete waste.

[chrisw]

i've got a whole engine i had it given me when i bought my mini i dont know if the engine is any good but your more than welcome to the sump if you need it or if it will fit. if you just need the sump plug i'll take it out for you i dont know the engine so im only going to chuck it anyway

[taffy1967]

Thanks chrisw, but I still have the original sump plug anyway and my engine is still sound as a pound.

So I'll see what happens and if they can sort out the problem with a heli-coil. I've also heard from a Mini owner on another forum who claimed to have welded up his sump plug hole and then had it re-drilled to the correct size.

Unfortunately our Mini won't be running for the Sunday run and it'd be pointless coming in the Zafira?

[taffy1967]

Last update (hopefully?) and yes the sump plug hole got successfully heli-coiled after all.

We took it to Dragon Engines of Merthyr and even though they couldn't use the original sump plug (because of it's odd thread), they machined the sump plug that STC had fitted and took the magnet from my original sump plug and inserted it into that.

I was just a bit concerned that the magnet could come loose and do untold damage to my gearbox and engine, but they assured me that it would be as secure in the new sump plug as it was in the original.

So it's not leaking oil, it seems to be in there secure and after many years I've got a magnet fitted too.

I've just got to build up some courage now because I want to treat it to an oil change and use the Duckhams Q Classic 20W/50 oil that I bought (after replacing the oil filter of course).

But I'm bloody terrified that it'll go horribly wrong and the sump plug won't go back or it'll leak.

I've been assured that it will last a lifetime, but if I get any grief then I'll be looking to getting it sorted with a new casing and perhaps an engine rebuild with MED or whoever else is good with Minis.

I hope that won't be needed for now.

Oh and I've just received a new dizzy cap and rotor arm from Mini Spares, plus I ordered some groovy red Luminition silicon HT Leads, so I'll be giving them a whirl soon.

So here's to long and happy trouble free Mini motoring, I hope.

;D

[dai9fxey]

Glad to hear your niggles are sorted. You'll have to make up for lost Mini motoring time now. ;D

[taffy1967]

Well nearly14 years on and I've still got it, so I must be doing something right.

And yes not using it for so long has made me appreciate it more, because modern cars are so bloody boring and nothing puts a smile on my face like a Mini.

;D

[taffy1967]

Well we've got a Zafira, but that's essentially my mothers car. Not that it's on mobility or anything, but it's there for her to go shopping and so we can all go off as a family if needed. We'd be a bit hard pushed to get the 5 of us and our dog in the Mini.

But saying that I took my mother for a spin in the Mini over the Rhigos last week and my 2 kids and dog were in the back and I think she enjoyed it. Well she did keep telling me to slow down, but I just pointed out that it feels faster than it actually is, honest.

The kids were laughing because every time I went around a bend, my mother started leaning towards me and it wasn't that far from the experience we had when we went on Megaphobia at Oakwood.

;D

Anyway now the Minis running again, I really only want to drive that because it's absolute bliss and massively fun to drive. it's also still bloody good on fuel too!



Oh and my daughter will be 17 at the end of next year, so I can also see our Mini family growing then.

;D

[acidminis]

Way to go

[taffy1967]

Anyway final report and the good news is the heli-coil insert was fitted expertly and after filling up with the Duckhams Q Classic 20W/50 oil, everything is fine.

Although I did nearly lose the will to live when a tiny piece of metal came out attached to the sump plug magnet. So I instantly thought the worst and expected an expensive gearbox rebuild was imminent, which would be great considering it had supposedly had all that done a mere 20,000 miles previously.

But I posted a picture of that piece of metal and it was confirmed (via TMF) that it was simply a part of the heli-coil insert (called a "Tang") and it should have been removed when it was snipped off. Obviously it fell into the sump and thank god the sump plug is armed with a magnet again so it was able to catch it and it didn't fly into my gears instead!

Apart from that and the oil slick down my block (which I've now GUNKED away), I really can't fault their workmanship, because even though they made a new sump plug from the remnants of the old one that was fitted (with a different thread to suit), it now looks almost identical to the original standard sump plug complete with a magnet. Oh and it screws in a treat and still doesn't leak oil too.

What's just as good, if not better is the fact that after filling up with Duckhams Q Classic 20W/50 for the first time, it now feels like I've fitted a new engine. I can't believe how smooth it's running, how much nicer the gears engage and how more responsive it feels when putting the power down.

I guess all those owners who recommended this oil were right after all and if it continues to drive so well then I don't think I'll use anything else ever again!

Anyway I'm well pleased it's all fit and healthy again and running sweet on the Duckhams, so look out Castle Combe tomorrow!

So if you're Mini ever has any sump plug hole troubles, then get in touch with "Dragon Engines" of Merthyr Tydfil, because that was £60.00 well spent (off the books mind) and I'm really pleased.

[taffy1967]

Well "Dragon Engines" are located near the Pant Industrial Estate (right next door to Paul Hughes MOT/Body/Repair Shop).

Their phone number is - 01685 373 637

The owner is a bit half soaked and I was a bit apprehensive at first and just wanted to take it to MED or MORSPEED instead and let them sort it out instead. Naturally that would have been more expensive, not to mention the petrol costs getting there.

So I'm more than pleased with the results.

Anyway yes we'll certainly look you guys up and we've managed to get a few tickets off an old mate again this year, but it'll be a very small stand and we'll just park up and head for Quarry Corner with our deck chairs, sandwiches and flask.

After checking out the traders first of course.

;D